Hair Shedding After Rapid Weight Loss: A Dermatologist Explains (with Dr Aamna Adel)

FULL TRANSCRIPT

So today in This Is My Journey, we're going deep on the side effect that upsets people more than any other. Last October, researchers presented one of the largest studies ever done on this. So nearly 548,000 matched pairs of people comparing GLP-1 users against non-users. At 12 months, GLP-1 users had 76% higher odds of telogen effluvium, the shedding kind of hair loss, and 40% higher odds of non-scarring hair loss overall. And here's the telling detail. At 6 months, the shedding signal wasn't there yet.

It only showed up at 12, which is exactly what you'd expect if the trigger is the speed of the weight loss rather than the drug itself. So what's really going on up there and what actually brings it back? My guest today specializes in hair loss, sits on the British Hair and Nail Society and has lived through her own hair loss too. So I'm super excited about this conversation. So let's roll the intro and get into it. When I started, I was on my own.

Two years ago, I began GLP-1 medications for chronic obesity with no real idea of what was coming. Not the good parts, not the hard parts, and definitely not the parts nobody warned you about. So I went looking for answers and what I found was just noise. Opinions, judgement, people selling something and everyone had a take and nobody had the truth. 126lbs down, I'm still on this road, still learning. still working out what maintenance actually means.

Because losing the weight, it turns out, was only half the story for me. I'm Marc and this is This Is My Journey. Every week I sit down with the people I couldn't reach back then. Leading doctors, obesity specialists, psychologists, dietitians, fitness experts, surgeons, and the people who actually understand what this medication does to your body and your mind. And who'll tell you straight? And alongside them, working professionals and people walking the exact same road as you.

Because their answers, they matter just as much. Just honest conversations about what this really takes. The science, the setbacks and the stuff you won't hear anywhere else. If you're on GLP Ones or you're thinking about starting them or you're just trying to make sense of it all, this podcast is for you because nobody should have to do this alone. Not anymore. Welcome back everyone and today I'm joined by a London-based consultant dermatologist who specializes in hair loss in both adults and children and who is communications lead for the British Hair and Nail Society.

Dr. Amna Adele, qualified with distinction from Barts and the London, trained in dermatology at Oxford University Hospitals and practices at 152 Harley Street. Online she's built a following approaching 3 million people across her platforms and In September last year, she launched Rhute, a scalp-first haircare brand born directly out of her own experience of hair loss, which sold out its first hair serum within an hour off a 23,000-person waiting list. Dr. Adele, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you so much for having me and for such a warm welcome. I'm so excited to be here.

I'm super excited to have you because I have some questions that this whole community, GLP One community has been asking. So I'm super excited to put them to you. So I suppose really just to start off for anyone who hasn't yet come across your page, what you're doing online, maybe you could start by telling us a little bit more about yourself and what made like hair loss the thing you specialized in and then built a whole brand around it. Yeah, I think like going really right back. So maybe if I introduce myself, so I am Dr. Azar, I'm a consultant dermatologist. So I specialize not only in hair, but also in skin and nails.

And for me, kind of like my journey into skin health, which is like where it really started. Everyone kind of thinks about dermatologists only managing skin. And actually a lot of people don't realize that one of the big things that is part of our training, and you can even go into doing further training on, is scalp and hair. And I think the interest for me, or interestingly, people probably won't like me for saying this, but hair clinics was one of the things that a lot of people don't want to do. And they don't have as much interest in. And it's interesting because I think partly the reason for that is because we have very limited treatment options when it comes to scalp and hair disorders.

But I think for me, one of the reasons why it was something that interested me so, so much was because I have really been on my own hair journey over the last couple of years. So actually, when I started dermatology, I don't think I wanted to necessarily go into hair. I was like very much focused on just skin. But then I had this very sudden, dramatic effect. episode of losing hair literally overnight. And I think that for me was like a really big turning point where, you know, I say this a lot, but I kind of went from like being that person who's known for having like really good hair to like all of a sudden being like, what do I do?

And I think when you want a doctor and something happens to you, all your knowledge just goes out the I was so stressed out, is it going to grow back? What's caused there? Is it going to happen again? And, you know, all these things kind of go through your mind. And I think that I kind of really entered this space of like trying to see like, okay, well, there are medicated options, but what are the other options that are available on the market?

I was really, I think, quite desperate at that point. And it kicked me into this journey of looking at what is in the drugstore that I can use alongside medicated options. And understanding that actually it was so confusing. It was like super, super confusing. Didn't know exactly what different things were doing. The marketing was really around, I think, mid-lengths and ends, like having shiny hair, having strong hair.

Where was the scientific ingredients that could really support my scalp health alongside the treatments that I was taking? And I think that really kind of started my journey of really... wanting to create root but also really sub-specialize within scalp and hair you know first hand I'd experienced like what a huge thing it is whether you're a woman or a man um to go through that and how much it really impacts you I feel like in short was how I kind of ended up there The one thing there that you touched on, I think that this affects everybody. It's not just women. It's not just men.

It affects all of us. I suppose really, if we start really right at the beginning, what is for anyone listening telogen effluvium in like plain English and why does rapid weight loss trigger it so much? Yeah. So the simplest way to think about it is that Tisian ephelium is a temporary hair shedding process. It's often triggered by things like stress and that stress can be related to physical stress or even emotional or mental stress on the body. And essentially what ends up happening is that you're...

hair grows in cycles. So you have a hair growth cycle. And at any one point, you have hairs which are growing, you have hairs which are resting, and then you have hairs which are essentially falling out. And in this condition, you disproportionately move more hairs from that growing and resting phase into the shedding phase. And that shedding almost all happens at once, which is why people find that they're losing a lot of hair quite suddenly, it feels really quite dramatic. you know, you kind of are showering and you're seeing all this hair in your plug, you're seeing it in your hairbrush and also on your pillow.

And one of the things I kind of mentioned is that stress is like a really big factor as to why somebody might experience telogen F luthium. And like I said, it can be stress on the body. So when you are, you know, going through a period of either fasting or you've lost weight quite dramatically, that's quite a stressful process to the body. Like your body is trying to work out like, whoa, what's going on? Like, are we going into like starvation? Like, do we need to go into like survival mode?

And one of the things I always explain to people is that, unfortunately, your hair is the thing that your body needs. deprioritizes always is i always say it's the first thing to go and it's the first thing to come back because if you think about it if you truly were in a state of survival you you're in this starvation phase or you've lost a lot of weight rapidly your body's going to prioritize the organs that it sees as being the most important which is going to be like your brain your heart your kidneys it is not thinking about your hair The hair is like not considered as being like essential for life. So it's one of the first things that tends to be impacted. And that's essentially what happens in telogeneth luthien. This stress response means that nutrients and energy is diverted towards more important areas.

And your hair, unfortunately, you know, is the first thing to go. You have more hairs going into this shedding area. phase and falling out or at once in short. And that's why people tend to experience it quite often when they have significant weight loss, specifically in quite a short period of time. I think that will be really helpful to people listening just to understand that process that's really happening. I suppose, you know, that very large study that I mentioned there at the start, it found the signal at 12 months, but not at six.

So what does that timing actually tell us about the cause? I think it's really interesting because I think up until this point, we've all been in the space of, well, what does the research say? We haven't had a lot of it up until now to really be able to say, is it the medication that's causing it? Or is it the process of having significantly lost weight? But specifically in terms of the signal not being seen at six months, but being seen at 12 months, If I put it into perspective, a lot of medications can cause hair loss, but the typical timeline for that happening is usually somewhere between two to four months.

And some studies have shown for some medications, it could be up to six months. So, you know, GLP-1s are really sitting out of that window of what we understand to be normal medication associated hair shedding. That to me points towards it being more likely that it's related to the process of weight loss and nutrition itself versus the medication. But I think I do really want to caveat that by saying that even still, even though we have that study... I think we still need more research and evidence to definitely be able to say that it's not the medication itself. Because it could be that, you know, actually it's possibly both things in conjunction causing that hair loss.

But right now with the evidence that we have, it is pointing more towards the weight loss in itself rather than the medication. Yeah, well, I think that I could relate to that myself and having lost weight. And it's definitely something I think I went through a phase of, I need a hair transplant and all this. Like, it's just that initial shock, I think. And, you know, trying to work it out and what was the reasons for it. And then I did notice it starting to come back.

But I noticed it started to come back almost when I had really up my nutritional content. So like what I was eating and I think because I had that initial shock taking these medications that I wasn't eating as much as I should be eating. And I think I've noticed a lot of different patterns while I have been on this, but I think ultimately it has been down to the actual weight loss itself. And I suppose that's my own personal experience, but looking at the data, how long does it genuinely take? for that hair to start to come back?

And, you know, what does that regrowth phase actually look and feel like? Because like I said, I panicked, people panicked at those short hairs. So what is that sort of timeline? I think that this is a really interesting and important question. And I'm so glad that we're covering it because I think it's really going to help people to understand the process and what to expect. I think starting right from the beginning that I would love everyone to understand is that when you first start a GLP-1 and you have this period of weight loss, you're probably not going to see any hair shedding.

And the reason for that is because when we think about the stress related to hair loss, that usually tends to happen about three months after the weight loss. Okay, so there's a bit of a delay because of the way in which the hair growth cycle works. So you've got that initial three months, might not notice anything, then you will notice shedding. That shedding phase, it's not like it just happens for a day or two. People are normally actively shedding for anything up to sort of three months, but actually even up to six months is considered normal in the context of telogen effluthion. When we get to past six months, that's a different story because you kind of start going into the category of chronic telogen effluthium.

But let's say so you then are in the shedding phase, which lasts for several months. Once that shedding phase stops, you're no longer actively shedding. Then for the hair growth cycle to kind of almost recalibrate itself and kickstart, start growing again. Really, you're looking at growth to then take another six months at least and sometimes up to a year. So it's quite a long process. So I think people get very nervous or freaked out about the fact that, you know, but I was shedding ages ago, like, why has my hair still not regrown?

Actually, that whole process and cycle is really much longer than people expect it to be. So I would really say to people, like, don't panic. Like, that is normal. And we know that that is the case. I think in our minds, it's really easy to think, well, okay, like, I've come off the medication now, so my hair should come back in the next couple of weeks. Like,

It was as easy as that. But I think understanding that is really helpful for people when they're looking at the outlook and hopefully can provide some level of reassurance that actually this is normal and it's expected. Yeah. Don't just do what I did. You may automatically think that you're going to need a hair transplant or something like this. You have to wait it out.

It's just one of those things when it comes to hair. I wish people understood that more. And it's like a lot of the work that I do in clinic is like, talking about what to expect because I don't know if you agree as someone who may have lost her and and for me as well I think that it does provide like a level of like reassurance and it also allows you to give certain options that you are trying the time that they truly need to to work because if you give up too quickly on them actually you're you're probably just a few months away from seeing results that you're looking for. I think that'll be super helpful for people listening. And I think the question that everyone will be asked and listening to you saying that is what actually helps this hair regrow and come back properly?

Is there anything out there that has like evidence behind it that can really help? And what are people best avoiding like in terms of wasting their money? Yeah. So I mean, first thing that I would say is like, it's really important to kind of identify any underlying causes. So like, especially I think in the context of like GLP-1s having lost a lot of weight, maybe not getting the nutrition that you need in your diet or the protein or vitamins.

I think a really good starting point rather than kind of stabbing in the dark and picking up like every hair, vitamin, minoxidil and all the rest of it is really to get a bit more of a diagnosis. And I think it is worth having blood tests done because things like iron and vitamin D, even vitamin B12 and folate, They're really easy things to replace and will have a significant impact on hair regrowth. And if you are deficient in those vitamins, which a lot of people will be, especially if they've chronically over a period of time not been getting that in their diet, that's probably the first place that I would start. So see your doctor, get a blood test done and replace the vitamins that are low. And then I think we get into almost this murky gray category of supplements that

like things like biotin, like the hair growth gummies, and all these other supplements that are aimed at hair growth, I would say to people, you know, take those with a pinch of salt. Biotin isn't going to grow your hair unless you've got a deficiency, which is extremely rare. And actually, you can end up with sort of some side effects like blood tests related to your heart being elevated and other potential side effects. So that's not the road that you want to be going down or spending your money on, because some of these hair growth supplements are really quite expensive and you probably don't necessarily need them. And then I think I would say next steps apart from like kind of supplementing any deficiencies that you have is really to try to focus on your diet. I think diet is super important for having good hair growth.

So protein is particularly important, but just having a really very balanced diet where you are getting your green leafy vegetables. So you're getting that iron, vitamin B12 and folate essentially from your diet. And for most people, you can... Pretty much if you have a relatively balanced diet, you could probably get most of your nutrition from that rather than needing to supplement. And then I think other things, like if you have got to a point where, you know, the shedding is still ongoing, there are some topical options that can help to reduce shedding. So I think scalp serums, the right one can be beneficial, especially if it's also helping to balance your scalp barrier and gently exfoliate, hydrate.

I think that can be helpful. And I would say like, don't jump to minoxidil. Like not everyone needs to go on minoxidil, which for anyone who's listening who doesn't know what minoxidil is, you might know it as Regain, but it's a topical solution that you could buy over the counter from the drugstore that often people know it as being something that men that are losing their hair will use. I think there's been a lot of popularization around minoxidil online and a lot of people jumping to buy it over the counter.

But I would really say like in acute shedding, you don't need minoxidil. I say to people in clinic, like everyone's like, okay, I'm going to start minoxidil. I'm like, hold on a minute. I don't think you need it yet. Like it's a lifelong commitment if you start it. So you need to really balance that against what are you actually using it for.

And in acute shedding, I don't think it's indicated. I think it's a different story if you've gone into chronic shedding, which is over six months. Mm hmm. Relating to that, I know your whole thesis, I suppose, is to treat your scalp like skin. So what what does that mean? And why has almost nobody been formulating really for the scalp?

I think that's a really good question. I think a lot of people end up overlooking the scalp as being skin, maybe because it's just covered by hair. So people don't think about it as being like skin on the rest of your body, but it definitely is. And I think there's value in recognizing that because all of the skin, whether that's on your face and your body, it has similarities, but it also has differences. And that becomes really important when you're thinking about what products are you going to use for, what ingredients are going to work and how do you essentially keep it healthy.

But it also impacts the way in which that skin reacts to things in the environment. For example, the skin on our hands and our feet is not the same as the skin on our face. It's actually much, much thicker. And it has to be because if you think about what your feet are doing all day and what your hands are doing all day, They couldn't be the same thing. And it's the same food yourself.

So actually, the skin on yourself is much thicker than that on your face. But it also has lots more oil-producing glands. It has its own microbiome. So it has different hosts of bacteria, fungus, yeast that live on it that are not the same as your face. And it also... is exposed to different stressors.

So the top of your head or your scalp, especially if you're someone that's got thinning hair, gets a lot of UV exposure. And people often don't think about that. But as someone who deals with skin cancer every single day, I see every clinic, men or women that are thinning and have sun damage to their scalp or worse skin cancers as a result of getting that UV exposure constantly to their scalp. So I think understanding that the scalp is skin and it behaves in different ways to other parts of the skin allows people to really tailor how they're looking after it. it are you doing things to look after your scalp barrier the scalp microbiome are you protecting it against uv and what ingredients might you want for example um things that are going to strengthen your scalp barrier or gently exfoliate because you're producing a lot of oil and you're getting a lot of dead skin cells overturning there and Yeah, I think I would say when it comes to formulation, I definitely feel like there's a big gap between what actually happens in clinic and what do you see in real patients versus the marketing of a product that is going to appeal to what people think or they have been told they need as part of their routine.

And I think it's that mismatch, which, in my opinion, has led for so long to products really not being formulated properly. for purpose, if that makes sense. And that was definitely something that I experienced when I was going out and shopping and experiencing my own hair loss. I was like, where are these products that I actually need? Because they don't really exist because that's not what people are formulating for. And I think that's the tricky part of the beauty industry to some extent because it's about sales and it's about marketing and it's about really tapping into things that they think consumers would purchase versus what they actually need.

Yeah, and I think that's where Rhute is, you know, so good because, you know, you've experienced this. You've also, you see it every day. And I think one of the things that I found very interesting was, you know, you designed a stamp rather than a derma roller, specifically because of what you were seeing in patients. So what was going wrong? And maybe tell people a little bit about, you know, why that is maybe better than a derma roller. Yeah, so I mean, derma rolling definitely is something that has increased in popularity over the last couple of years, I think, especially because of socials.

And I think for me, what I was seeing in clinic was people just not using that tool correctly. I mean, to be honest, like you can go on Amazon and you can buy one for like a pound. You know, they're very easily accessible, even though they've got needles, there's no restrictions around buying them. And there's like one in a million which are available on Amazon. And, you know, having that easy access, lots of people were buying them. They'd seen online that it could be useful for hair growth.

But, of course, they were going home and using them without the education around how to use it effectively and how to prevent getting potential issues that can be related to essentially like piercing your skin with a needle. And I think in my practice, what I was seeing a lot of was very aggressive roading, which was leading to trauma to the surrounding skin. So people were getting redness, inflammation and infection of the surrounding skin. But I think definitely for me, the red flag was seeing people that were actually developing hair follicle scarring, which is crazy to think that an at-home device not being used correctly was essentially causing lifelong changes to people's hair. When a follicle scars, it's not going to grow back. And for me, the more I was seeing that in clinic, I realized that there's a gap here.

There needs to be a tool that can be safely used at home, be effective, not cause scarring, damage or harm. And how can we innovate and create something that is going to be able to achieve that? and educate people really on the correct way to use it. And for me, I think a derma stamp is definitely a more controlled way of creating those micro-injuries to the skin. It's hard to get wrong, especially I think with the root derma stamp, the way that we designed it is that we have kept the needles to a very specific length. They're 0.3 millimetres at home.

You're not going to be able to cause half-volucral scarring. with that. And I intentionally also kept the head really small. I think one of the things that people often get wrong is that they think, you know, you need to just microneedle everywhere. You don't. Like, really, you want to focus on the areas that are a concern to you.

And that might be your hair parting, it might be your temples, or a patch of hair loss that you have. But you don't necessarily want to be causing trauma to the rest of your scalp, to be honest. So I think there's just a lot of thought and education that went into creating the derma stamp, one, to allow people to use it safely and effectively at home, and two, to get the results that people were after in a way that, and I'm going to be honest, obviously microneedling in clinic is never going to be the same as doing it at home, but for people who do want to do it, because a lot of people can't afford a professional service, I felt like there was a gap and we weren't serving people essentially what they really needed and were looking for. I think that what you have is definitely something that people should look into. And I think there's reasons for why I've created what you've created.

And I think it's so helpful for people to know that. I suppose just really just added to that. But what is it that that actually does to the scalp? Essentially, it's a way of creating micro injuries to the skin and to the scalp. There's a lot of research and evidence which looks into the benefits of microneedling, not only just for the skin, but also in the context of hair growth. And we know that when you create controlled injuries to the skin, your body basically responds by trying to prepare that.

So what it does is it stimulates growth factors to go to the area. It stimulates growth. Lots of different cells in the body that help with the healing process. And as part of that healing process, you also stimulate growth within the bulb of the hair molecule. At the same time, you also stimulate collagen induction. And in turn, those things can help to improve the hair density and bloodstream.

hair shaft thickness over time. And we know that from the research and evidence. And I think one of the other real benefits of using microneedling tools is that they also help to increase absorption of anything you want to apply afterwards. So whether that is minoxidil or whether it's a scalp serum, we know that the studies kind of show that if you combine like minoxidil alone versus minoxidil with microneedling, it increases the absorption by... up to two-thirds in some cases. So it's really making your topical products work even harder.

So I think there's a lot of benefit in incorporating it into your routine as part of an overall hair growth routine. I suppose you're... quite openly have been talking about your own hair loss here already. How much did going through that yourself change how you treat patients and other people? Honestly, so much because I think that when you are a doctor and you're kind of on the other side, I feel like you can to some extent become really immune to what people are really experiencing, especially like when you're in a really busy setting like within the NHS and you're kind of just seeing patients back to back. It's like you're kind of

almost sometimes forget like how much of an impact is this having on somebody and I think that going through it myself it really just took me back to square one truly it was probably like my first experience of feeling or experiencing being a patient and really recognizing like actually this can be like life-changing for people like it's so emotionally distressing like even within the medical field like hair can sometimes be seen as being something which is like a bit more cosmetic you know, it doesn't necessarily impact your health in the way that something like diabetes would. And therefore, there's reasoning. And it makes you think, is there a lack of funding towards conditions like hair because they're not seen as being as true medical conditions as something like skin cancer? Which obviously you can't compare the two, but still, I think... they have significant impact on people.

And I think definitely having my own experience as a patient, it just completely changed the way that I interacted with my own patients who were experiencing hair loss. Because I think that it's so important to understand to what extent is somebody being affected by their hair loss? Because that can ultimately also change the treatment options that you might present to them. Yeah. Well, I totally echo what you're saying. I think having hair and thick hair, you know, it adds to confidence and, you know, I suppose for me, if I was to lose my hair and it is one of those, I suppose, moments that I went through that, you know, do I need a hair transplant?

Because for me, without my hair, it's a part of my personality loss almost. It's a little bit ridiculous to people, but I think for me, that is how I feel. It's a part of my identity and do not have that identity anymore. I think would be quite tough to take for me personally. I definitely agree with you. I feel like for a lot of people it is like a huge part of their

their identity. And I think there needs to be openness around that conversation, I feel. Because I think that there's still quite a lot of stigma, in my opinion, around certain types of hair loss. And you'll still see it online now, where people make comments about men losing their hair in the same way that they might talk about a male's height. And it's actually really insensitive because I think a lot of men won't openly talk about their hair loss, even though they're really affected by it because they... They know that sometimes it's just like the butt of like a joke, but it's like, come on, guys, we're in like 2026.

We should be able to openly talk about like hair loss, experiencing it and like what are the options? Because really, I think for a lot of types of hair loss, like time is so important. If you kind of miss that window, you've maybe lost the opportunity of growing that hair back ever. Yeah, I think again, totally. I know so many men that have been in the process of losing their hair and it does really affect them. Like I suppose really, you know, we're coming near the end of what I have, but when should someone stop trying things at home and actually seek the help from a dermatologist?

What are the signs that isn't just shedding? I would say that any type of hair loss where it's quite sudden and quite localized. So for example, if you are suddenly noticing patches of hair loss coming up, that's not something you should be trying to treat at home. You need to go and see your doctor. Any type of hair loss where you are getting symptoms to your scalp, so that could be pain, itching, burning, that's often a sign that there might be something inflammatory happening underneath that needs medicated treatment. So definitely...

That I would say. And also I would say that any hair loss which is associated with other skin or body signs. So that might be coming up with a skin rash or lumps on your skin that is associated with hair loss. Or if you're losing weight and losing hair at the same time, that might be an indicator that there's something more internally happening in the body. And it's kind of showing up in your hair. And then I think otherwise what I would say is like when it comes to progressive hair loss, which isn't quite sudden, and I'm talking more about like the androgenetic alopecia, the male-female pattern hair loss.

I think if you are noticing that your parting is getting wider or your hairline is moving back, that is a good time to go and have a chat with your doctor. Yes, you can go for minoxidil over the counter, but it might be that there are other options which are better suited to you. So I think a lot of people feel really worried about going and seeing their doctor when they have hair loss and they're like, oh, I feel like I'm wasting the doctor's time. But actually, you're really not. Like, I would rather see people earlier versus...

loads of months down the line where, you know, things have progressed and it's much harder to treat now. So I think that's like, you know, kind of a message that I want people to take away from this. Like, don't feel embarrassed to go and speak to your GP. Don't feel like you're wasting their time. Like, if you're worried about it, that is enough to go and see your doctor about it. Yeah, no, totally.

And I suppose really just related to that women sometimes with menopause and things can start to lose hair and things like that. So it is a very big topic that I think deserves more attention, as you say. And I think there's so many factors that can contribute to hair loss. And I think... It's definitely not a vanity thing. You know, I've covered quite a lot of ground there with you already.

And, you know, everything that you have said has been so, so informative. I suppose really just to really highlight for anybody that's listening, maybe hasn't heard of Rhute. What does that all consist of? You've talked about your experience and where the idea came from. But maybe tell people a little bit more about it and where they can find it and if they want to get involved and find you. Yeah, so Rhute is my brand that I launched in September of last year.

And like what I've touched on as part of our talk, that was really born out of my own expertise as a dermatologist and what I was seeing in clinic and the kind of things that people were experiencing. But also my community online. So a lot of people have been on their own journey. hair growth journeys over the last couple of years and maybe aren't looking for mitigated options and were looking for options that really had the science and evidence behind them. And then lastly, my own experience with hair loss. So those were really the driving factors for me launching Rhute.

But I think what I really want to say about the brand is that There's certain pillars that for me were really important when I was thinking about launching the brand. I didn't want this to just come into the space and be another hair care brand. What am I doing or what is Rhute doing that sets us aside in this space? Of course, I feel like science and evidence is so much at the core of what we do. It's like what the products that we're putting out into the market...

What problem do they solve? And what science and evidence do they have behind them to justify or back up those claims that we are trying to make? And where do we kind of lead with innovation? You know, I think there's brands that have got amazing products and I'm not here to add to a space which is already quite saturated. Like anything we are adding, I really want it to be meaningful. And I want it to kind of address something and fill a gap that currently exists.

And I think another really big part of Rhute was related to education. I think that scalp and hair information online and otherwise is incredibly confusing. And I think we've come such a long way in skin where people really understand their skin a lot better. They understand what ingredients they should be using, how they should be looking after their skin. somewhere along the line that hasn't still happened to her and i think there's so much that people need to understand and learn that's going to allow them to make better decisions about how they look after their scalp and hair and what products they use the big part for us is like we are a dermatologist founded brand we have a group of doctors that work within root on the education side and a big part of what we're doing is like the blog posts that we put out on common topics that could be related to glp ones it could be related to menopause The content we put out online and then also community events where we invite our customers to come and spend a day with us, learn more about scalp and hair, have an assessment.

So it's really quite an all-encompassing brand, which is not just about product. It's also about what we stand for. It's also about inclusivity. It's also about really recognizing that there are different scalp and hair types and how we formulating products, considering scalp. the general public rather than just thinking about one person. And I think really our motto is like, you know, it's about meeting people wherever they are on their hair journey and whatever that might look like.

So for us at the moment, we're only available on roothair.com exclusively and not on Amazon because we had a couple of dupes coming up. on Amazon, guys, don't buy it from Amazon. That is not us. We only sell on roothair.com. And you can find us across socials, so on Instagram and TikTok, where we put out a lot of educational information. And like I said, on our website as well, we've got a wealth of blogs covering everything.

And we always welcome questions and discussion and love to address them, because we're really here for our community and we want them to learn. Well, all them details that you've just said, I will link them all in the caption anyway. So anybody that is listening to this is maybe driving or whatever, you can come back and you can find all the links there. But, you know, I think everything that you're doing in the space with Rhute, in case anybody doesn't know how to spell it, it's R-H-U-T-E. So, yeah, if anybody is looking to find it, I think it's definitely something that I think... you know, within this space, you're doing amazing work.

Dr. Odell, thank you so much for sharing your insights with us on all that. I know everybody listening will find so much benefit to them and hopefully help them recognize ways that they can help improve their hair health and scalp health going forward. So thank you so much again for giving up your time. Thank you so much for having me, Marc.